is there any knowing what happened to the weapons Eric and Dylan used? I know that the guns and knives were photographed and displayed at some point and I think one or two explosives may have been exhibited or photographed but I could be wrong. Were they all destroyed in the years since?
Officially, everything was destroyed, but a few months ago someone on eBay was allegedly selling some glass fragments from the library in an evidence bag, with the number badly crossed out… So who knows if a police officer with deep pockets and sticky fingers was involved…
“In May 2007, several evidence items were returned or destroyed as phase one of the evidence disposition in this case. After consultation with the County Attorney’s Office and Sheriff Ted Mink, it was determined that all the remaining evidence in this case would be destroyed.
The evidence items were separated into three categories depending on the method of destruction.
On December 27, 2010, I transported all of the combustible evidence, ammunition, and casings to the Jefferson County Explosives Range. I then watched as all these items were destroyed.
On December 29, 2010, I transported all of the evidence items that could be burned to the Denver International Airport incinerator. All of the boxes of evidence were placed in the two incinerators, and we waited about 1.5 hours until the evidence was fully engulfed in flames, ensuring its destruction.
On February 16, 2011, Supervisor Jansson and Internal Affairs Investigators Paul Magor and Randy Klein transported the remaining evidence items, which consisted of the guns, clips, and inert pipe bombs, to Western Metals. All of these items were then crushed.” – Kate battan files
do you think if dylan and eric were to get better they would have to stop being friends?
In my opinion? Yes. The friendship, at least in the form it existed, would have had to end. Not because one was innocent and the other corrupted him, and not because they were destined for violence, but because the dynamic between them made their worst traits louder and more destructive.
They were two people whose vulnerabilities and anger reinforced each other instead of balancing each other out. Putting them together and you get an unhealthy echo chamber.
Separately, they were more harmful to themselves but together, they formed something neither would have created alone. That’s why any real recovery would have required separating them. It wouldn’t be about protecting Dylan from Eric or “fixing” Eric by removing Dylan. It would be about breaking a psychological system in which each person’s anger made the other’s more intense.
If either of them had entered real therapy, one of the first steps would be separating them long enough to break this feedback loop. They couldn’t grow while orbiting each other’s anger. It’s not about blame, it’s about the emotional chemistry being fundamentally unhealthy.
Could they ever have reconnected later in life? Possibly. But only if both had fundamentally changed. They both needed to form identities that weren’t built around the same wound.
One of the things that actually mattered the most was the emotional climate they created together, chaos that neither of them, in their teenage state of mind, had the tools to stop.
Do you think Dylan and Eric were actually racist or did they just take their anger out on everyone?
I don’t think either of the boys were truly racist. Eric admitted he was a hypocrite. He’d throw out slurs but also say some people in those groups were cool, and even called out white people. He had a page with slurs for every race, including white people. I think Eric and Dylan were mostly edgy teenagers and said shocking things for effect in that regard. That’s the impression Brooks gives of their friend group, everyone was like that, but it wasn’t serious.
“Never experience more than them being nazi just to offend people. They liked ruffling peoples feathers, and so did I. I was a die-hard Any Rand fan (IN HIGH SCHOOL NOT ANYMORE_ just so I could argue with people.
Was it something they really believed? Not that I experienced, but I also didn’t think they’d shoot a bunch of people.”
That’s not to say they didn’t do certain things that are classified as racist.
Say, hypothetically, that Eric and Dylan survived the attacks and were arrested or just survived in general. Do you think they’d enjoy the infamy and attention they’d get like they do now, or do you believe that they’d realize the gravity and reality and feel some level of remorse?
Hypothetically, if Eric and Dylan had survived their attacks, it’s possible they might have initially been drawn to the infamy and attention their actions generated, but that also depends on how they felt once it was done which can be debated either way.
However, take Kip Kinkel. He later expressed profound remorse and guilt for his actions. He acknowledged the full gravity of what he had done and the devastation it caused.
By analogy, it seems likely that Eric and Dylan, confronted with the long-term consequences of their crimes, prison, societal revulsion, and the suffering of the families they harmed, including their own, would eventually face the reality of their actions and feel deep remorse. Who knows if that recognition of harm would come right away, some years later, or only decades afterward but over time, any initial thrill or sense of notoriety would likely give way to guilt, shame, and the weight of what they had done, especially with the right treatment and help in prison too.
i was just wondering, how often did the boys mention natural born killers – i know it’s pretty deeply linked to the attack but since i’m still kinda new to researching about columbine i’m just curious as to how much it was actually referenced during the whole thing. (i’ve been obsessed with that movie for the past few months & it actually introduced me to this case!!)
In my opinion the connection between Natural Born Killers and Columbine is often overstated a bit by the media, but it definitely played a role in their mindset and imagery. they used “NBK” (short for Natural Born Killers) as a kind of code name for the attack, so while it started as a movie reference, it eventually became their own shorthand for what they were planning. it stopped being about the film itself and turned into more of a symbol for what they wanted to do.
it also seems like Dylan was the one who connected with the movie first, and more deeply. He wrote about NBK before Eric ever did, which suggests the film resonated with him on a personal level. Especially its themes of alienation, rebellion, and that kind of doomed connection between two outsiders. Dylan seemed drawn to the emotional and romantic side of it. It reflected a lot of what he wrote about loneliness, frustration, and the desire to escape with someone who truly understood him with the violence laced on top. You can see traces of that in how he talked/dressed as Mickey and even mentioned wanting to “go NBK” with a girl.
Eric, meanwhile, seemed to use it more as a symbol and their plan, rather than something he identified with personally. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dylan introduced the movie itself to Eric as well. That’s not to say Eric didn’t enjoy the movie, he clearly did.
However in a way, the parallels are definitely there. NBK is about two outsiders lashing out against a world they feel alienated from, and Columbine was, in their minds, a kind of ultimate rebellion against a society they felt rejected by.
We also have to remember that according to Devon Adams, Eric and Dylan, could quote the whole movie from the top of their head. This shows how often, they at the very least watched it.
do you entertain that maybe, MAYBE, one of the boys had a crush on the other?? (Talking about dyl and Eric) and maybe repress it bcs of toxic masculinity, fear of judgement, ideologies etcc
If you’re asking me seriously, then no I don’t personally
Do you think Sue will ever do any other ted talk or publicly talk? I just wonder if she is doing alright and what is she up to these days. I know that she is still hurting til this day but I feel like so many people in the community would love to share their care for her and appreciate what she has done
Possibly. She’s a loud and strong advocate for especially mental health and suicide awareness on top of prevention. I think her last podcast was in 2023(?) and she was a speaker at Association of Threat Assessment Professionals Event on school safety on October 2024.
if you want to show her some support, I would buy her book and keep an eye on any events she might be a speaker at. It’s such a sensitive subject, I think from her book, she feels conflicted about strangers loving her son but I’m sure the general support would mean a lot to her. She deals with the guilt and grief daily. I hope she’s okay too.
How did the boys feel on Marilyn Manson? Ive heard conflicting reports that they thought he was cringe and gay but also that Dylan has a mechanical animals poster
A few people have said they called Marilyn Manson a faggot and that they didn’t like him, including another worker in black jack.
Eric mentioned M.M in one of his writings with some other bands mentioned so it’s plausible that he listened or liked him to some degree however there’s nothing else.
Dylan on the other hand.. he did have a Marilyn Manson poster. It wasn’t confirmed what poster. I don’t believe it was mechanical animals since he dresses up as a woman on that cover, it’s a bit out there. With the boys throwing around slurs, I don’t think he would have picked that to have up. I think anti Christ super star or American family is more likely since those albums are coproduced by Trent Reznor.
”Mrs. Klebold indicated that Dylan had a poster of Marilyn Manson and that she asked him about it, and in particular asked him what it meant. Dylan had told her that it didn’t mean anything and that he didn’t really listen to lyrics of Marilyn Manson music, however, did listen to the music.” – police interview with the klebolds
I’m inclined to think Dylan did listen to the lyrics, since Dylan in general really resonated with the music he listened to and enjoyed. He must have liked it to put it up in his room. Do I think he was a massive fan? In my opinion no, but do I think he liked one/two albums that have some of NIN’s sounds? Yes absolutely.
were Dylan and Eric possessive of each other? I heard Eric was jealous when Dylan had other friends and was afraid they would steal his best friend
I’m not sure I would say possessive is the right word.
I don’t think Eric and Dylan went deep about their general emotions beyond their shared interests or anger however Eric in Littleton seemed more isolated than Dylan which would make sense why he’d cling to him more.
Eric often seemed to view Dylan as his closest and most reliable friend, and he also copied a lot of the things he did.
Dylan, meanwhile, was more socially fluid despite also being socially awkward. He had pre established connections outside of Eric (like Zack Heckler, Nate Dykeman, Robyn Anderson, Devon etc.), and by some accounts, Dylan sometimes seemed to drift away from Eric in mood or interests. He even told his mom to ignore Eric if he called since he was crazy, at some point in their friendship. Stated by Sue in her book.
That said, the dynamic wasn’t one-sided. Dylan also relied heavily on Eric. His diaries show feelings of deep loneliness and alienation, and Eric was one of the only people he could share his darker thoughts with after Zack began dating Devon.
But Dylan seemed less possessive and more ambivalent, at times expressing a desire for other types of connection (romantic or social), while Eric fixated on his friendship with Dylan as a kind of anchor despite in my opinion also wanting deeper friendships and relationships with people. People who interacted with Eric daily did mention he was very nice and normal to talk to.
I just think Eric struggled to find his place in Littleton, so it’s easy to get stuck on the one person whose experiencing and feeling the same as you, especially since they fed off each other unhealthily thanks to it.
Would you call the friendship one sided? I mean Dylan despite being socially awkward and not good with talking had friends but Eric didn’t, Eric seemed to rely on Dylan a lot but not much the other way around especially with how Dylan got annoyed with Eric a lot.
I wouldn’t call their friendship completely one-sided, but it was definitely unbalanced at times. Eric seemed to depend on Dylan since he didn’t have the same level of social connections. Dylan had other friends and a bit more social flexibility, while Eric was more isolated in Littleton and probably saw Dylan as the one person who really understood what he was going through. He did have other friends which is important to keep in mind, but I believe he kept a lot of his anger in when he around those especially girls.
That said, Dylan did rely on Eric in his own way. His journals show that he felt deeply lonely and disconnected, and Eric was one of the few people he could share those darker thoughts with. So there was mutual dependence, just expressed differently. Eric’s through attachment and need for connection, Dylan’s through the comfort of having someone who shared his alienation and pain.
The imbalance comes through in how Dylan sometimes got frustrated with Eric or seemed to distance himself, while Eric appeared more invested in maintaining their bond since he didn’t have the same childhood connections in Littleton. Again. Keeping in mind the female coworkers got along with Eric and he seemed to open up to them, but that was more his sensitive side and not so much his explosive anger/resentment. I wouldn’t say Dylan often got frustrated with Eric. We have Sue’s account and we have his coworker at blackjack who described them arguing once and Dylan being angry with Eric. So, not one-sided, but definitely uneven. More like a friendship where both needed each other, but for different reasons and to different degrees at different times. again.
Did you know what Kevin and Byron think of their brothers?
From accounts Eric and Kevin were closer(at least Eric spoke fondly of his brother, despite being jealous of him too) than Byron and Dylan (looking at his statement in the 11k)
but it’s hard to say since there’s not much out there. If you want I can put it on my to do list; to compile all the available information about both of them.
if you mean post columbine, it’s even more tricky since they’re very private. None of them have made public statements so it’s about piercing together what is public. According to reports Kevin was in shock afterwards. He used to be best friends with Derek Holliday, whose younger sister Jessica Holliday was present in the library. She was also one of Lauren’s friends. Only days after the shooting, he went to her house and asked if she was okay as well if it was Eric in the library. He seemed to be in disbelief that his brother could have done it.
Other people have supposedly stated that Kevin blamed himself for moving away for college and not being around to help Eric with his struggles.
in 2008 author Wally Lamb met Wayne Harris at his book tour. He talked about the meeting on YouTube. Wally questioned how Kevin was doing and Wayne told him that he wasn’t doing very good. Kevin joined the army as a coping mechanism to get away from the tragedy. Wayne wanted to know if his book would be beneficial for Kevin to read. Wally told him that he unfortunately didn’t have any answers for him.
Byron wasn’t living at home at the time. According to Sue he rushed home once he heard the news. The first night Byron went out to the bushes by himself and just cried on his own. He didn’t tell her this until years later. He was grappling with a lot of grief whilst wanting to support his parents through it. Sue stated she was worried about losing her other son to suicide too.
Neither have spoken out publicly about it or made any statement. If people do find this interesting, I can make a post on my WordPress about all this with sources and links but since I’m working on something else; it’ll have to be after!
I think they both love their little brothers despite the complexity of it all. I think they mourn what could have been and have to deal with the what ifs. I hope they’re doing okay.
I know this is probably a way out question but do you know where Eric and Dylan’s accessories could possibly be from like Eric’s watch or Both of their sunglasses?:)
I do think Eric and Dylan’s sunglasses look similar with slight differences since I obviously don’t think they’re the same. The style was popular in the 90’s. I believe Eric’s frames were silver and Dylan’s were gold.
someone suggested these as a modern substitute: Ray Bans Model 3447 Oval
I did some digging and found these vintage 90’s ray bans that look similar.
I also found an unbranded oval unisex sunglasses from the 90’s.
We do know that Dylan’s were expensive (2-300$) from his own account since he complained about breaking them and repairing them with tape. By all means Eric could have bought some cheap mall sunglasses that were similar. You can find a lot of similar ones by searching for 90’s oval sunglasses. Tweak it as you like! Eric’s watch for anyone who doesn’t know: Casio F-91W
Dylan’s ring and earring is debatable. He could have bought it or gotten it gifted since he is sentimental. The ring could either have been silver or stainless steel with onyx imo.
Eric’s hat has Kmfdm in the front in white, and he (most likely his mum) stitched on the German cross on the back. I believe he either ordered it from the KMFDM store, since he ordered things from there or got it at the concert.
Dylan’s hat was a Colorado avalanche hat and he took the red Sox logo off his old hat from child. His mom sewed it to the newer hat. He could have gotten the newer one at a sports store.
Now what possible shops?
Littleton Fine Jewelry as a long-running local jeweler in Littleton. The business presents itself as decades-experienced, which strongly suggests 1990s operation. However most likely from Southwest Plaza Mall from one of the possible chain stores or independent stores in there.
This might seem a bit ridiculous to say, but would you agree, or perhaps share your opinion that Eric and Dylan might have been born in the wrong generation? I feel that all the things they enjoyed, from personal interests to the music they listened to and how they dressed, would be more acceptable nowadays, given the increased acceptance of individual expression.
I agree to some extent and to expand on what you already mentioned. I also think the internet today would have made a huge difference for them. Back then, the online world was more limited. Now you can connect with like minded people anywhere in the world at any point with your phone even, and that kind of support system can completely change how a person feels about themselves. Having a community, even an online one, can reduce that sense of isolation and make you realise you’re not as “different” or alone as you think.
In a generation where expressing yourself is more accepted and where friendships can be formed globally, they might not have felt so cut off from everyone around them.
But I don’t think the deeper issues they struggled with, such as mental health struggles, were solely tied to the 90s. The issues weren’t just products of the time period, they were personal and psychological. Even in today’s more accepting culture, they would have needed real help to deal with some of that.
do you think Sue is the reason Eric is seen as the psychopath and that she believes Dylan is innocent? I’m thinking from the point of her book.
No, I actually think Dave Cullen is the main reason Eric ended up cemented as “the psychopath” in the public mind as well as the media.
I also don’t think Sue portrays Dylan as innocent. In her book, what I read was a mother trying to come to terms with the fact that the son she thought she knew wasn’t the full picture. She openly admits she was in denial, clinging to hope, but that the evidence forced her to confront the reality that Dylan was a co-conspirator.
She humanises Dylan and of course she does! She’s his mother. No matter his age or his actions, there will always be some level of bias when talking about your own child.
The Harris family speaking so rarely about Eric doesn’t help either, because we don’t get the same level of personal insight. And I don’t blame them. I have nothing but compassion for them(and the klebolds). Everyone copes with grief differently, and they are under no obligation to speak publicly. I’m sure they love Eric just as deeply as the Klebolds love Dylan. It just doesn’t help the public narrative.
I don’t treat her book as a factual source on Columbine itself. She mixes up some details and gets some things wrong but that’s not what I find important, since it’s a small part of what her book actually is about.
What I take from it is insight into who Dylan was growing up, and an honest look at a mother processing grief, confusion, guilt, and every emotion that came with the tragedy. I’m grateful she allowed us to see even that much when she was under no obligation to let anyone in.
Just speculation here, what do you think would‘ve happened with the boys if they never went down that path? Like their futures etc.
I think if they hadn’t gone through with NBK and especially if they had been separated, things genuinely could have turned out very differently for both of them. They were still adolescents, still forming identities, still figuring out their place in the world. At 17–18, your life trajectory isn’t fixed at all.
For Dylan, I do think he would’ve needed some real mental health support to get him through whatever he was dealing with at the time. He clearly had depressive thoughts, low motivation, and issues with self worth, but he also had genuine academic strengths. He was smart, even if he didn’t always apply himself or make the effort.
He had already applied to the University of Arizona and planned to major in Computer Engineering within the College of Engineering and Mines. That lines up with the way he wrote about computers in his application essay.
“(…)As a result of these classes, as well as personal time spent, I have grown a passion for using, operating, and learning about computer systems. I feel that choosing Computer Science and Engineering as a major will help further my education, and my future”
His counselor also wrote that he had “great potential” in the tech field and was smart. I honestly think being in a new environment, studying something he actually cared about, and not being in his old social circle would have been good for him. He might’ve made new friends, found a place where he didn’t feel so out of place, and grown out of that adolescent sense that nothing will ever get better. Maybe he’d stay in Arizona, maybe eventually transfer, who knows but the potential was there.
For Eric, he of course needed help too with his self esteem, anger issues and depression. We alsp have his diversion paperwork. In 1998, he listed either the Marines or computer science as his future plans. Since the Marines had rejected him temporarily due to his medical history (and told him he needed to wait a year), he likely would have stayed at Blackjack Pizza. He’d just been promoted.
I’m not convinced he was deeply interested in college at that point but I can see him working for a year, saving money, visiting Germany or old friends like he talked about, and then either trying the military again or applying to school majoring in something computer related. I think he needed structure, routine, and a clear path laid out in front of him. And more distance from high school might’ve actually helped him settle a bit.
Long term, I don’t think their friendship would’ve necessarily lasted. Most high school bonds naturally evolve or fade out. They would have grown as individuals, made new friends, lived their own lives. Maybe Eric would’ve ended up back in New York. Maybe Dylan would’ve built a life in Arizona. Maybe they’d reconnect years later online, who knows.
But I really do believe that if they had chosen literally any other path, by the time they were adults, things could have been okay. They both had potential that never got the chance to develop, and it’s hard not to feel sad wondering what their lives might have looked like if things had gone differently
Did Eric & Dylan ever have an eating disorder? Now. I know the answer is most likely no, but Eric’s obsession with how he’s perceived as weak leads me to believe he probably didn’t have the best body image (being too insecure about being thin and such and the small deformity in his chest)
So maybe they didn’t have a full flushed out eating disorder but in my opinion they exhibited signs of disordered eating..
Well this is just my opinion but I don’t think either of them had actual eating disorders, at least there’s nothing in the records, journals, or witness accounts that suggests that. That being said, you can still talk about body image issues or disordered eating without jumping straight to an ED diagnosis.
Dylan did have a pretty dramatic weight loss (around 37 lbs) in the last months of his life, during senior year. But extreme weight loss can happen from stress, depression, withdrawing socially, irregular sleep, and just generally not taking care of yourself. Given how much his mental state declined, that explanation makes the most sense. He was not doing well and it was getting closer and closer to NBK.
As for the basement tapes moment where he says “I’m fat on this side,” it really doesn’t read like actual body issues. He was pointing at how the trench coat was bulging because of the gun underneath, basically to me it reads as saying it looked obvious or awkward, not that his body looked fat. It comes off more like an off hand comment.
Eric, on the other hand, clearly had insecurities about being small, thin, or looking weak. There’s zero evidence he restricted food, binge ate, purged, or had compulsive patterns around food at all. He just didn’t like how he looked and wished he was bigger. That makes sense given the bullying.
Both of them clearly struggled with self image in different ways, but nothing points toward an actual eating disorder. The most I’d say is that Dylan showed signs of disordered eating towards the end relating to his overall decline, and Eric had body image issues tied to his insecurities, but that’s it
what is it about Columbine that you care so much about ( sorry if this seems rude I’m genuinely just curious and wanna know )
For me it’s more about trying to understand how something that horrible could actually happen. Columbine wasn’t just two evil kids snapped. It was a whole mix of mental health issues, social pressures, anger, loneliness, and the way they saw themselves. It’s one of those cases that sticks with you. It’s also about the cover ups by the police, failures and the how the media handled it/shaped peoples views. So much hasn’t been released, and what has been has been carefully picked and redacted.
I also feel sad for who they could’ve been if things had gone differently. They were unstable teenagers, and the way their lives ended and the lives they took, just feels tragic all around.
I also care about prevention a lot and I’m working on my own book written from my personal research.
So that’s basically why. Empathy, curiosity, and wanting/trying to understand the deeper why and how’s instead of just the surface level narrative.
Was the reason for Eric’s & Dylan’s brief falling out posted or mentioned before? I read somewhere that there was a week they didn’t speak to each other while working at Black Jack, I’m wondering if it had to do with the fact that they were arrested or a disagreement over ideals?
From what i know Dylan & Eric weren’t “joined at the hip” (if you’d like to call it that) until the very end of their planning, they didn’t strike me as best friends per se more like that one friend who you can trust to tell a secret or confide your problems with. Even then I never figured Eric was all that involved in Dylan’s “interests” since he made jabs at The Smashing Pumpkins (and I believe) Nine Inch Nails too calling them too emo or something along those lines, I feel like a falling out between both boys would’ve been inevitable.
Jason Secor, their manager, said that Eric and Dylan once got into an argument and didn’t speak to each other for about a week. He couldn’t remember what the argument was about. He even mentioned that Dylan might have told him at the time, but that it didn’t seem notable enough for him to remember later.
Honestly, that makes sense given their ages. They were teenagers with strong opinions, and it’s completely normal for close friends that age to argue, sometimes intensely, without it meaning the friendship was at risk. It could have been about anything. We know Dylan had gotten annoyed with Eric before, and Eric once shouted at Dylan after a soccer match, so occasional tension wasn’t unusual.
Despite that, Eric still described Dylan as his best friend, and Brooks said they were together very often. However I don’t think their friendship was based on deep emotional confessions or long conversations about sadness, insecurities, dreams, hope or fear. It seems like what really bonded them was shared anger, frustration, and the feeling of being on the same wavelength in that sense. I also believe the friendship was unbalanced at times which I’ve touched on in another ask.
And liking different music doesn’t undermine a friendship at all.
Eric was actually a fan of NIN, maybe not to the same extent as Dylan, but he definitely liked them. He referenced their lyrics in his writings and even had NIN on his backpack that he wrote himself.
Yknow what upsets me a lot? When ever YouTubers cover Columbine, they always call Dylan and Eric such things as monsters, evil, cowards, etc.. No they were two unstable teenage boys. This kind of language is harmful, because it gives general audiences the idea these boys were while monsters, and anyone who potentially relates to them may start viewing themselves as an evil monster and thus only be further isolated and thus less likely to get help before they try to hurt themselves or others. I’ve never gotten the point of making them seem evil and scary, because they’re not.
I get what you mean, and I actually agree with the core of this. I don’t think they were inherently evil either. However what they did was absolutely evil and terrifying, there’s no softening that. But calling them “monsters” makes it sound like they were some kind of inhuman creatures instead of what they actually were. Yep seriously unstable, damaged teenagers who committed something horrific.
My point isn’t to defend their actions. It’s that prevention requires looking at them as people who made bad choices, not as creatures from a horror movie, as well as try to somewhat get to the truth. And like you said.. If you treat them like inhuman monsters, then anyone struggling with similar thoughts just ends up feeling even more ashamed and isolated, which makes reaching out for help less likely.
And clearly, I do feel sad for Eric and Dylan’s lives too (my interest when I was a teenager wasn’t healthy.) in the sense of what could have been if they’d gotten real help instead of spiraling like that. They were in so much pain, both of them feeling like they’d failed at life before it even started. It’s tragic that their suffering turned outward and destroyed so many lives, including their own. I mourn them too.
We can’t turn time back and save Eric/Dylan from what they did to others and themselves. But understanding how two damaged teenagers reached that point is the only way to prevent the next person in that kind of pain from doing something similar.
Okay this is very far etched but i’m genuinely curious, what do you think about the possibility of either of them being potentially queer? I saw this one post (which turned out to be false) about some reporter claiming Dylan to be bisexual, and it got me wondering, could there have been any possibility he at least was bi-curious? I hope this makes sense 😭 and tysm for always answering the asks so thoroughly!!
Based on the evidence we have, both Eric and Dylan appeared to be straight. They both actively pursued girlfriends, and their writings frequently reference girls. Eric was known to talk about girls a lot too. Dylans romantic fantasy is surrounded by the whole halcyon girl. The movies they enjoyed, cave girls… etc. At that point in their lives, it seems reasonable to say that their sexual orientation was straight.
Of course, teenagers are still figuring themselves out, and people can change as they get older and have more experiences. It’s possible that, had they lived, their attractions or identities might have evolved. It might also have not since some people just know from a young age. This is just me keeping somewhat of a open mind.
But in the case of Eric and Dylan, we only see them frozen in that period of their adolescence, and everything we know from their writings and behavior points to heterosexuality at that time.
In short, I believe, in my opinion that both boys are straight
My question is, why, in your personal opinion, columbine is such an inspiration for other school shooters/mass killers. I couldn’t even try to count the times when someone started being obsessed with Eric and Dylan right before they did something similar.
Columbine became an “inspiration” for later shooters because of a combination of factors in my opinion. The biggest one is the massive media impact. It was the first school shooting to receive nonstop national and international coverage, which basically created a public blueprint. Anyone who wanted attention already knew the names, the story, and the imagery.
A lot of myth building also happened early on. Much of the reporting was wrong or exaggerated, turning Eric and Dylan into symbols instead of two unstable teenagers. Some vulnerable kids relate to the emotions the boys expressed, feeling angry, isolated, or like outsiders and see parts of themselves in that story.
There’s also a documented contagion effect with mass violence. Once an event like Columbine gets huge attention, it becomes easier for the next person to imagine doing the same thing. At the time, Columbine was the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, and the scale of the coverage made it feel “possible” for others in a way earlier shootings didn’t.
Another factor is the secrecy around the case. So much has been kept from the public and details about JeffCo’s mistakes. That created a sense of mystery and even mystique. When information is hidden, people fill the gaps themselves, and some project whatever they want onto Eric and Dylan. The lack of transparency made them seem larger and more legendary than they were, which unintentionally fueled obsession.
Finally, there’s also somewhat of a legacy effect. Later shooters referenced Columbine, which made the next group do the same. Over time it became the most familiar reference point. We see modern shooters do it with other notorious shooters, such as copying the writing on their weapons.
So the Columbine effect comes from a whole variety of things in my humble opinion
do you think there’s a possibility the basement tapes ever get released to the public AND do you think they should be released to the public?
At this point, the only realistic way the Basement Tapes would ever reach the public is through a leak by someone who still has an copy. Officially, the narrative is that the tapes were destroyed, so a sanctioned public release seems extremely unlikely, at least for many decades, if ever.
Personally, I do think the tapes should be released in some form, at the very least heavily redacted. The main reason they haven’t been is fear of copycats. However, that concern hasn’t matched reality. School shootings have continued despite the tapes being hidden, which suggests that the root problems lie elsewhere. In my opinion, inadequate access to good mental health support, lack of mental health awareness, and the broader issue of gun laws.
I also understand why the full tapes shouldn’t be released, if you play devils advocate. The parts with bomb instructions, how to carry out a shooting, how to hide weapons, or sections where they speak directly to the viewer (which they believe could influence someone whose already unwell.) should stay sealed or heavily redacted.
But other portions, such as the general conversations between the two, their dynamic, and even moments like Eric crying alone could offer valuable insight. I would really like to watch the Nixon tapes especially. Those clips could help humanise them rather than mythologize them, showing two unstable teenagers in crisis rather than the untouchable, “godlike” figures or “monsters” some people imagine.
In my opinion, releasing selected, contextualised parts would contribute to understanding, research, and prevention, not harm.
Hello! I plan on visiting Colorado soon and I wanted to ask if you can do me the huge favor of giving me a list of all columbine related things to see? I would really appreciate it. I’ll even go see something like where they worked the burger king from the breakfast run etc. Thanks!!!!
I wouldn’t go to the school, it’s a functioning school and they’re aware of outsiders, police have been called before. I also would highly discourage anyone from visiting graves or peoples houses.
You could go to the memorial instead, but remember to be respectful. It’s in clement park and you can somewhat see the school from there.
A lot of the places the boys frequented have been shut down or moved due to the passage of time but I can do my best and give you a few.
If you have anything specific in mind, do let me know and I’ll try to help you.
BlackJack where the boys worked was located at 6657 W Ottawa Littleton, CO. However it’s since been moved to 5934 S Kipling Pkwy, Littleton, CO 80127
King soopers located at 6760 S pierce st, Littleton, CO, 80128 is where the video of Dylan shopping a cigar for Eric’s birthday was recorded.
Southwest plaza mall, 8501 West Bowles Avenue, Littleton, Colorado 80123 where multiple shops they went to were located but is no longer there. Including All Wound Up and Hot topic to name a few.
Ogden Theatre, where they attended the concerts. 935 E Colfax ave, Denver, Co 80218
AMF Belleview Lanes in Englewood, CO, 4900 S Federal Blvd Englewood, CO 80110 which has been taken over by bowlero. A verified survivor said this:
“it started at six something in the morning.
Eric and Dylan’s team usually bowled on lane one against the wall.”
Great clips
Outback Steakhouse, Eric and Dylan went there. It was supposedly Eric’s favourite. 8601 West Cross Drive, Littleton, CO 80123
McDonald’s, Eric and Dylan went there with brooks skipping class. There’s multiple locations in Littleton.
Angelo’s CDs and tapes, multiple receipts seized from Eric. 1500 W Littleton Blvd Littleton, CO 80120. I think it might have closed or moved.
Eric and Dylan drove their car there, lit fireworks and smashed bottles before breaking into the van. “Once they had left, they drove to the intersection of Wadsworth Blvd and Deer Creek Canyon Road to park their car.”
Rampart range is harder to locate but according to Randy;
“Rampart Range Rd is the road that takes you South to Devilshead, a ranger station in the national forest. South on Santa Fe to Sedalia. Go west past 105 to the turnoff. Then South. The road is closed in the winter.” And “Santa Fe south to Sedalia. Go west. Right on hiway 67 to the entrance to Rampart range road. Turn south. As I remember, the video took place a little south of that turn, on the west side. The Park Ranger knew where it was, but she is not there anymore. It would be very hard to find now.”
Someone whose been there marked this location on the map, saying they went there and the rocks match up.
Which one of the boys had better luck with girls?
David Cullen liked to paint Eric as this womanizer guy
I highly disagree with Dave Cullen and I can’t stand his book. It’s fiction mixed with a few facts. Anyways..
Eric generally seemed to have more confidence in social situations, including with girls. Or at the very least.. he faked it better and forced through. He had more girlfriends, went on more dates, and asked more girls out than Dylan, but his relationships were clearly mostly unsuccessful. At least the ones he actively pursued didn’t last, showing that while he tried more often, it didn’t necessarily lead to meaningful romantic success.
Dylan, on the other hand, was quieter, more reserved, and struggled socially overall. He seemed to have to really hype himself up to finally ask someone out, while Eric tended to just go for it. Dylan asked out far fewer girls and didn’t date in the same way Eric did, so he had fewer opportunities for romantic experience. That makes it hard to measure who had more luck with girls. Eric had more experience with multiple attempts, while Dylan had fewer attempts, making a direct comparison tricky. Their different personalities and approaches mean luck with girls worked differently for each of them.
Hi, i apologise if this has been asked before and i apologise for how uncomfortable this question is (you don’t have to answer it if you don’t want to, i understand) but i’ve seen a post saying that theres a possibility that both Eric and Dylan may have possessed cp due to some evidence. It’s quite a gross thing to find out about them but there isn’t too much information on that considering the account claiming this has been deactivated. I know that you aren’t a columbine professional, but i know that you’ve done excessive research on this case and you know a lot. The original post claims that Eric and Dylan were a part of the tcm and some kind of tcm server where they shared porn and illegal porn. Allegedly Zack Heckler was also in this server. I know that Eric and Dylan weren’t a part of the tcm but an accusation like that is huge. I wanted to ask if you knew anything about this? Any evidence that either supports this or debunks it? It could just be some rumour made to paint them in a worse light but this honestly disgusts me so much. Again, i apologise for how heavy this question is and i totally understand if you don’t want to answer it. I hope you have a good day or night.
No, this isn’t true. It’s just another rumour that’s getting spread around. We have to remember that Eric and Dylan were never officially part of the Trench Coat Mafia. They were only friendly with some members, especially because of Chris Morris. Zach wasn’t really connected to the TCM at all, even less than Eric and Dylan were. By the time Eric and Dylan were getting closer to Chris and the rest of that group, Zach had already drifted away from them.
Zach was also extremely suicidal after the incident where he stole his teacher’s credit card to buy porn. Considering that, I highly doubt he would have been involved in anything like the claim being made. The idea that all the boys might have shared regular porn between each other is plausible, they were teenage boys, but I’m personally certain Eric and Dylan wouldn’t have been involved in anything illegal in that sense.
Columbine is one of the most heavily documented cases in modern history, and if a claim this serious had any real basis/proof, there would be sources, evidence, or at least ongoing discussion. But there isn’t.
Probably a dumb question but is it known or possible that Eric and Dylan had any inspiration from the North Hollywood shootout? I know the overall massacre idea came from a variety of inspiration sources, but there’s several aspects that feel reminiscent of a North Hollywood. They seemed to be pretty enthusiastic when shooting at the police, and had similar levels of preparation (IE duct taping match strikers to their forearms, which is similar to how the North Hollywood robbers sewed watch faces to themselves).
Eric in particular had written that he hated police officers. I feel it’s very likely he was atleast aware of the incident or had researched it in someway given it’s proximity to NBK (1997 to 1999).
We have no evidence that the North Hollywood shootout directly influenced Eric and Dylan, even though it’s certainly plausible they were aware of it. The North Hollywood incident (1997) received massive national media coverage. Images of the two robbers in heavy gear exchanging fire with police were broadcast repeatedly, most would almost certainly have seen it. Given Eric’s documented dislike toward police, breaking in/stealing and his interest in weapons, it’s reasonable to assume he noticed it. But noticing is different from being inspired. We only know for certain Eric mentioned other school shooters and mass bombings, in Dylan’s case Charles Manson.
Their plan was fundamentally a bombing attack, not a shootout. The shootout only occurred after the bombs failed. That makes their overall intent quite different from North Hollywood, which was a failed robbery culminating in a gun battle with police.
The North Hollywood robbers sewing watches to their sleeves was purely to monitor timing during the robbery. So could Eric and Dylan have been inspired by “their match strikers”? No not in my opinion. The North Hollywood shooters didn’t use any and I think the watches is a stretch.
As for enthusiasm when firing at police. Eric and Dylan made it clear that was their plan all along too. I don’t see it as having anything to the with the Hollywood shooters. I think that’s much more to do with their inspiration from NBK(1997).
They were almost certainly aware of the North Hollywood shootout due to its media saturation, but there is no evidence it served as inspiration. Any similarity is circumstantial rather than documented in my opinion.
do you think Dylan and Eric ever did stuff together or even kissed?
No, I answered multiple times that I don’t think they were gay or together.
Do you think if the boys never crossed paths they could’ve healed and gotten better and would potentially still be alive today?
Yes. I feel like I touched on this before in previous asks but… Eric and Dylan weren’t destined to do what they did. They were two teenagers with very different issues and baggage who just happened to end up reinforcing each other’s worst impulses.
They had their issues, but I don’t believe it would have escalated had they not met each other. Despite the fact that being apart doesn’t erase their own individual problems and pain.
When they bonded, especially over violent fantasies, they created a feedback loop that was kind of hard to break or snap out of.
Separate lives could absolutely have made it all unfold completely differently. They might not have become healthy, perfect adults, but the odds of them being alive today, or at least not committing a mass shooting, were likely much higher if they’d never crossed paths. In my opinion.
did e&d know about kip kinkel? dunno if this has been asked before but this would be interesting to know! hope you have a good week 🙂
Eric mentioned the Jonesboro and Paducah school shootings, but there’s no record of him or Dylan ever mentioning Kip Kinkel by name. That said, I’m pretty sure they were at least aware of him. His shooting happened in May 1998, less than a year before Columbine, and it got a lot of national media attention.
It’s also worth noting how the media framed Kip at the time, they highlighted his music taste, his bomb making interest, the anarchist cookbook, obsession with guns, violent school essays, anger, his internet and media use, and even the fact that he was wearing a trench coat during the shooting. Those details were everywhere in news coverage, so it’s very likely E&D saw or heard about it at the very least.
Why are the police so obsessed with covering up Columbine? Theres not nearly this much covering up with other mass shootings.
Columbine was one of the first school shootings of this scale and kind in the U.S., and law enforcement had no clear protocol for an active shooter scenario. The response was widely criticized, so there was an incentive to control the narrative.
After Columbine, officials were very aware that publicity could inspire similar attacks. This made them cautious about releasing information, like the shooters writings, plans, or anything of that sort.
But most importantly protecting themselves from public scrutiny was and is high on their list to this day.
The guerra report is a great example, imagine what else they’re hiding or misplaced on purpose to protect themselves?
even though Columbine isn’t the deadliest or even first school shooting, why do you think its still the most relevant? Even in the wake of shootings like Virginia tech and sandy hook Columbine is still seen as the school shooting. Why do you think that is?
Columbine is still the reference point because it was the first mass mediated school shooting of the modern era. The 24/7 news cycle, police mishandling, leaked journals, the long term planning, two shooters, basement tapes, protocols changing, and the myth making that followed turned it into a cultural blueprint. Everything that came after was judged against Columbine rather than replacing it
So I was talking to my sister about Columbian and she said she heard that one of the mothers ( she thinks sue ) would hit her kids, do you know anything similar to this.
None of the parents hit them, at least not to our knowledge. Eric’s parents specifically crossed out on the diversion paperwork that their discipline was things like taking away privileges or grounding.
Sue has also said that yelling wasn’t something that happened in their household, and people who knew them generally described their parents as gentle and caring.
Obviously no family is perfect, but there’s nothing to suggest physical discipline/abuse was part of their upbringing.
Is it bad to see Dylan and Eric as martyrs?
mhm.. I don’t think it’s “bad” in the sense that it makes you a bad person, but it is important to look at why that comes up and what it can mean. People often turn to the term martyr when they strongly empathise with someone’s pain or feel a connection to their struggles. Eric and Dylan both clearly dealt with their own issues, frustrations, and emotional turmoil, as well as being failed too. It’s okay to acknowledge that they were human beings with complex lives, thoughts and feelings. They were in pain too, and it’s normal to relate to that, especially if you’ve felt alienated, lonely, or bullied.
But I do personally think calling them martyrs is complicated because their actions caused so much irreversible harm. For many, martyr suggests someone who dies for a cause or a greater good, and that doesn’t align with what happened at Columbine. Many innocent lives were lost that day, and many more people are still affected to this day. Victims, families, loved ones. Eric and Dylan’s lives ended that day too, destroying their own futures and any possibility of growth or healing, along with the futures of others. No one won.
So in my opinion it’s more accurate and healthier to see them as troubled individuals rather than symbolic figures sacrificed for something bigger, since viewing them as heroes can blur the reality of what happened. Understanding them and their thoughts is fine, even important, and caring about them as individuals or mourning what could have been and them is too, but it’s best done while keeping the full context in mind.
The harm they caused, the people affected, and the fact that their struggles don’t erase their responsibility or choices either. You can acknowledge their humanity, being failed and their pain without elevating them into something they weren’t
Heyy, sorry for asking this, but I hope you’re having a good day 🙂 I wanted to know what happened to the library. I know they tore it down, but are there any before and after photos of the school building outside? I’m a bit confused about the layout was the library on the top floor or something? That’s all! Again thank you 🙂
“Columbine’s old library was completely removed. Originally on the second floor above the cafeteria, work crews removed the floor in that section and replaced it with an airy atrium. A new library was built to one side of Columbine’s main building, on the grassy knoll near the west entrance. The new building was named HOPE Columbine Memorial Library, dedicated to the victims of the attack.”
So yes, the library was on the floor above the cafeteria and the library is somewhere completely different.
The old library versus the new library
Given they were born today do you think Eric & Dylan would’ve been part of the “incel”, “looksmaxxing” or “blackpilled” communities online?
(Eric does give me nice guy energy
Honestly, maybe parts of it, maybe not, and that’s the tricky thing. If Eric and Dylan were born today, they’d be growing up in an heavily online world that didn’t exist for them in the 90s, so the influences around them would be totally different. The internet we have now creates those subcultures. If they grew up in this era, their experiences, friendships, coping mechanisms, and support systems might look completely different so it’s hard to put them in modern contexts.
Eric did have moments in his writing that you might associate with nice guy attitudes, the whole “I treat people well, why doesn’t this work out for me?” frustration. But that doesn’t automatically place him in any of those groups either.
Dylan’s struggles were very different. He internalized everything, turned it inward, and showed signs of depression and suicidal thinking. That mindset overlaps more with general fatalism and not with the entitlement narratives that define those incel spaces.
Some of their attitudes/writings loosely resemble things you see in those communities today, but automatically thinking they’d be part of those groups is a stretch and very speculative, since the contexts, cultures, and motivations aren’t the same so impossible to compare fully
i’m sorry if this has been asked before or if it’s a silly question, but what do you think the boy’s reactions would be to the basement tapes not being released? xx
Not silly at all. They’d probably be mildly annoyed or frustrated that none has been released, but I doubt they’d be shocked. On the Basement Tapes they basically already predicted that the police would only release what they wanted people to see, heavily cut, redacted, and controlled.
Maybe kind of a weird ask but do we know wich one of the two cried more?
Eric strikes me as the hold-it-in type of guy and Dylan seemed to actually allow himself to feel
No, we don’t. Eric cried on the Basement Tapes when he was alone and also opened up to Kim and Sarah about some of his insecurities while he was upset. Dylan used to be open and emotional with Zach on the phone, though he hid a lot of it from others except in his journals. He also cried once coming home from school. I think they both held things in publicly, but privately they clearly felt more than they showed. Eric seemed to have more depth and vulnerability in private conversations than people assume, and Dylan did too. Eric also appears to have had some heartfelt phone conversations with his childhood friend. On the other hand his parents haven’t made any statements, compared to Sue, so we lack insight when it comes to his behaviour at home.
It’s impossible to tell who cried more.
How often did Eric and Dylan fight? And why?
We don’t know, because not all instances have been documented or shared, so I don’t feel confident guessing. What we do know is that Jason mentioned they had a week long falling out for unknown reasons, and Sue said something along the lines of, that Dylan didn’t want to take Eric’s calls. We don’t know how long that lasted or what caused it. I’m sure they argued more than what’s been recorded, and the severity probably varied since they were teenagers with strong opinions
I can’t remember what was the ketchup tampon incident
I’m not sure it was actually tampons, the information we have contradicts itself, or it might’ve been two separate incidents. What is clear is that they were humiliated badly and had ketchup thrown at them in some form.
Chad Laughlin said this:
“ I caught the tail end of one really horrible incident, and I know Dylan told his mother that it was the worst day of his life.” That incident, according to Laughlin, involved seniors pelting Klebold with “ketchup-covered tampons” in the commons.”
Brooks mentioned this:
“People surrounded them in the commons and squirted ketchup packets all over them, laughing at them, calling them faggots,”
Completely your personal opinion but, do you think Columbine should be taught in schools for educational purposes?
I think there’s value in understanding how Columbine shaped things like school safety drills and the way the media reports on violence, but I don’t think it needs to be taught to students beyond basic historical context.
It’s relevant to American history, sure, but it shouldn’t be on children to learn how to spot a potential shooter or have suspicion toward their classmates. Which a lot of times it does become that.
If anything, the real educational focus should be on teachers and staff, noticing when a student is struggling mentally, being bullied, or slipping through the cracks.
Prevention starts with adults, whether they’re in positions of authority, running the government, or just part of the community. because it’s adults who run these places, makes the different laws and who shape the environment kids grow up in
Who do you think was more insecure, Eric or Dylan?
Both were insecure, but in different ways. Neither was simply “more” insecure. it depended on how that insecurity was expressed at also different times. Framing one as more insecure than the other is an oversimplification.
This is all in the realm if speculation here but given both byron and Kevin are fathers do you think they’ve told their kids about their uncles letting then know the full truth or do you think they’d try to keep it a secret
Honestly, I don’t think it’s all or nothing. I doubt they’d sit down with little kids and explain Columbine in full detail, but I also don’t think it would stay a secret forever. That kind of history tends to surface on its own given how well known it is. If they did tell them, it was probably later in life and very carefully framed, depending on their ages. Honest about what happened and clear that it was wrong, without going into graphic or sensational detail.
They likely kept the good memories alive too. I can easily see them talking about their brothers as they were before such as childhood stories, funny moments, the normal, family parts and pushing that alongside the truth.
did dylan or eric ever do drugs? not like actively but tried them atleast or something.
Eric supposedly tried to buy cocain from someone but it was fake. Multiple people claims to have seen both boys smoke week. Eric mentioned weed in his online questionnaire, Dylan mentioned having tried it in his diversion files. Wayne accused Eric of doing LSD
hii do you know whether they‘ve been to parties/house parties or something of the sort? i can kinda picture them being invited to some/going to them on some occasions. would be kinda interesting to know! ty in advance 🙂
Eric went to one Halloween party dressed as the Unabomber. The same girl stated she used to go to parties with him.
Eric also went to Robyns house for a party in 26 march 1999. Dylan was away so only Eric attended with other friends.
Dylan went to Devon’s birthday party and cast/crew party for Frankenstein.
Eric and Dylan went to one New Year’s Eve party.
Eric went to a party at Jeanette’s house.
Eric hosted a birthday party for himself.
Eric went to a Christmas party in 97 and so did Dylan. It’s unclear if it’s the same one.
Eric wrote in his school planner, ‘party?’ 27th June 98’
Dylan wrote, “both kickass 4ths of july” in Eric’s yearbook. Might be parties or drinking in relation to fireworks.
Eric noted making donuts for Oktoberfest.
Their manager said they all partied on the roof of Blackjack.
What do you think about people saying that “killers do not deserve compassion”?
I have been in the True Crime community since my early teen years, and now it’s been long since I’m an adult. I have a clear mind, I freely acknowledge the pain and suffering those actions caused, I acknowledge the injustice for other people loosing their lives because someone else decided for them. But I can’t not feel compassion for Erik&Dylan as well as other people that have been in similar situation as them. They were young, confused kids who went through life in the same way I did and every other person did, their minds had been fogged by the injustice they felt around them that turned into a crippling depression, which led to such hatred. While I acknowledge how bad the whole thing was, often I look through Eric&Dylan’s pictures/videos with such sadness and melancholy. Those boys did deserve a chance for help as much as we all do, and it breaks my heart that the path they chose didn’t benefit them and the world.
I think a lot of people confuse compassion with excusing. Saying killers don’t deserve compassion often comes from a fear that understanding someone means justifying what they did and it doesn’t.
I can hold multiple things as true at once. What Eric and Dylan did was horrific and unjustifiable, innocent people were murdered, and the harm they caused can never be undone. Acknowledging that reality has to come first.
At the same time, I do think they were failed in important ways by mental health systems, by the people who saw warning signs and didn’t act, and by a culture that often minimizes adolescent distress until it turns into something extreme.
Compassion, to me, isn’t forgiveness or redemption. It’s recognizing that these weren’t monsters, but human beings whose lives deteriorated under untreated mental illness, distorted thinking, and poor intervention. Feeling sadness when looking at who they were before everything went wrong doesn’t mean I condone their actions, it means I’m capable of empathy without losing moral clarity.
And I think it’s also fair to acknowledge that different choices by them and by the systems around them could have led to very different outcomes. The thought of what could have been and things potentially getting better is always very very sad.
Refusing all compassion may feel morally satisfying to these people, but it doesn’t help us understand, intervene earlier, or stop this from happening again. You can condemn the actions completely while still mourning the fact that help didn’t reach them before it was too late.
why do you think people are so hellbent on trying to prove Eric & Dylan weren’t bullied?
Just because there’s no record it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, I mean what school is keeping record of their bullied kids?
People are so fixated on disproving bullying for a few overlapping reasons, and most of them have more to do with discomfort than evidence.
First, people tend to treat no official record as proof it didn’t happen. That’s a really flawed assumption. Schools rarely document everyday bullying especially in the 1990s, when bullying was largely dismissed as “kids being kids.”
Second, acknowledging bullying complicates the narrative people want. If Eric and Dylan were bullied, some interpret that as justifying or excusing what they did, which it absolutely does not. To avoid that uncomfortable gray area, people flatten the story into something cleaner: “they weren’t bullied, they were just evil” or “they were bullies themselves.” It’s easier emotionally and morally to keep victims and perpetrators completely separate, even though real life rarely works that way.
Third, there’s a tendency to overcorrect against early media myths. Early reporting exaggerated the “outcast trench coat mafia” story, so later discourse swung hard in the opposite direction. In trying to debunk misinformation, some people went too far and started minimizing or denying any peer victimization at all, even when there are firsthand accounts of bad harassment, humiliation, and social cruelty
What’s your verdict on what type of disorders or mental health issues the boys had? (Just looking for an opinion, it doesn’t have to be all-factual!)
I try not to speculate too hard, because it’s impossible to diagnose anyone posthumously and a lot of behaviors can overlap or be explained by environment and adolescence. That said, if I had to give a personal impression based on journals, videos, and accounts. I’ve always felt Dylan showed traits that could align with being on the autism spectrum, particularly social rigidity, He spent a lot of time stuck in his own head, going over the same thoughts again and again, difficulty expressing emotions outwardly, and a tendency to withdraw. Alongside that, there’s very clear evidence of long term depression and anxiety, especially social anxiety and deep feelings of alienation.
With Eric, I see something different. He appears more externalizing and reactive. I’ve wondered whether traits of OCD (especially intrusive thoughts, rigidity, fixation, and control issues.. which also fits with his mediation he was put on) and possibly ADHD could explain some of his restlessness, impulsivity, anger regulation problems, and constant mental churn. Depression also seems likely, though it presents differently than Dylan’s. Eric seemed more emotionally dysregulated and prone to swinging between all the different emotions at such an intensity, which doesn’t automatically point to any one disorder but does suggest significant psychological instability.
But overall I don’t know.
do we know what music they were into? besides the obvious of kmfdm, nin etc. 🙂
KMFDM
The boys mention the band multiple times.
Specific songs mentioned: “Kein Mitlied”, “Son of a Gun”, lWaste”, “Stray Bullet”, “Anarchy”, “Dogma”, “brute”, “Godlike”. Eric wore the symbols tour shirt and Dylan the xtort(possibly son of a gun). We also have an receipt I’ve posted before for the Kmfdm album: Agogo.
Rammstein
The boys mention the band multiple times. However overwhelmingly Eric references it, same with KMFDM.
Songs mentioned: “Buck Dich”, “ Du Hast”, “Du Riechst So Gut” ,” Engle “, “Guilty”, “Herzleid”, “Kokain “, “Heirate Mich”, “Tier”, “Bestrafe Mich”, “Klavier”, “Wilder Weinl”, “Weiss Fleisch”. Eric wore multiple shirts, burning man, 1998 rammstein glow in the dark.. Receipt for the album Stripped. Both have matching car stickers.
Receipts as I posted before confiscated from Eric’s house:
Lights of Euphoria – Voices
Electric Hellfire Club – Burn Baby Burn pg
Die Krupps – Fatherland
Nosferatu – Rise
Front 242 – Front by Front
Front 242 – Tyranny (For you)
The Orb – U.F Orb
Funker Vogt – Killing Time Again
Loreena Mckennitt – The Mask and Mirror
Various Artists – Industrial War The Agony and the Ecstasy of Industrial Music
Leather Strip – Serenade For The Dead
Orbital – Snivilisation
Various Artists – Ultimate in Gabber Trance – Beats From Hell
Future Sounds of London
Eat Static – Science of The Gods
The chemical brothers
Only Dylan references them
songs mentioned:
Chicos Groove – The Chemical Brothers
Loops of Fury – The Chemical Brothers
Daft Punk remix of Chemical Brothers – Life Is Sweet
Dylan wore a setting sun and dig your own hole tshirt.
Nine inch nails
Mainly referenced by Dylan
“Hurt”, “now I’m nothing”, “something I can never have”, “piggy”, “the downward spiral”, “mr self destruct” (? Mr. Cutter)
Dylan wears his downwards spiral tshirt, eric had NIN on his backpack.
Eric listened and gave his Fly – bomb threat before she blows to Susan
Eric mentioned the prodigy
Dylan lists of CD’s
The Doom Generation – sdtk”(soundtrack)
“Vampires – sdtk” (soundtrack)
“Smashing Pumpkins – Box Set”
“Smashing Pumpkins – The Aeroplane Flies High”
“Spacetime Continuum,”
“Nowhere sdtk (Soundtrack),”
“Renegade Soundwave”
also mentioned
“Siamese Dream” – Smashing Pumpkins
”beautiful” – smashing pumpkins
“Smash” – the offspring
“Atari teenage riot”
“guilty” – gravity kills
“hit em up” – 2pac
I think that’s all… at least this will do for now
Which one of the boys had better luck with girls?
David Cullen liked to paint Eric as this womanizer guy
Ihighly disagree with Dave Cullen and I can’t stand his book. It’s fiction mixed with a few facts. Anyways..
Eric generally seemed to have more confidence in social situations, including with girls. Or at the very least.. he faked it better and forced through. He had more girlfriends, went on more dates, and asked more girls out than Dylan, but his relationships were clearly mostly unsuccessful. At least the ones he actively pursued didn’t last, showing that while he tried more often, it didn’t necessarily lead to meaningful romantic success.
Dylan, on the other hand, was quieter, more reserved, and struggled socially overall. He seemed to have to really hype himself up to finally ask someone out, while Eric tended to just go for it. Dylan asked out far fewer girls and didn’t date in the same way Eric did, so he had fewer opportunities for romantic experience. That makes it hard to measure who had more luck with girls. Eric had more experience with multiple attempts, while Dylan had fewer attempts, making a direct comparison tricky. Their different personalities and approaches mean luck with girls worked differently for each of them.
funny coincidence both boys messed around with their ‘friends’ girlfriends lol
Dylan never messed around with Devon. Their relationship was purely platonic, and there is no evidence that he had romantic feelings for her beyond caring about her as a close friend. Likewise, Devon never gave any indication that she harbored a crush on Dylan while she was dating Zach.
Eric and Kristi’s situation is more complicated. Nate was interested in Kristi, while Kristi initially liked Eric, and Eric reportedly had feelings for Alyssa. Eric and Kristi did go on an informal date (possibly group one) and Eric openly flirted with her around the time Nate and Kristi were either about to start officially dating or had just begun dating which caused Eric and Nate to fall out for awhile.
“In January of 1999, Eric and Kristen “Kristi” Epling went on an informal date with Eric, bowling at Belleview Lanes with some other friends. That date led to a falling-out between Nate and Eric, as Nate was interested in Kristi. Kristi was able to help them patch things up, but they were never as close after that as they had been. Kristi and Nate officially started going out in February. Over the next two months, Nate started spending more time with her than he was with Eric and Dylan” – acolumbinesite
So Eric & Dylan didn’t have that bad of luck with girls…
I mean Eric had Alyssa and Kristin both into him he just didn’t realize it for some reason,
And Dylan had options and was respectful with girls
No. They did have bad luck.
Eric knew Kristi liked him, but at that point he liked Alyssa, who already had a boyfriend. That’s just unlucky timing. Most of Eric’s relationships were short lived and pretty childish, even though he clearly hoped for something more. He talked about having no luck with girls to multiple people, not just once.
When he did ask girls out, he was usually rejected, sometimes ridiculed, whether that was prom or in general.
I don’t really know what “options” people are referring to with Dylan. Robyn liked multiple boys at once and Dylan wasn’t the first person she asked to prom. He also didn’t like her like that. Being adjacent to people who might’ve liked you doesn’t cancel out a consistent pattern of rejection. The girls he liked in his journal didn’t know him. The ones he actually asked out turned him down as well. Even when we spent a long time preparing himself. Sasha broke up with Dylan pretty early on and began dating Eric, who she also broke up with. Not lucky. If you’re thinking of Devon, she was dating Zach.
Why do you personally think Dylan and Eric have such a big group of followers, I mean they’re way more popular than other mass shooters. Their fan basses are as notorious If not more than Bundy’s or Dahmer or even Charles Manson’s fan basses
No, they absolutely did not have a more notorious fan base compared to others. Bundy, Dahmer, Manson all had massive fan bases, so Columbine isn’t unique in having one.
The difference is longevity. Most serial killer cases eventually become narratively closed, the facts settle, the story hardens, and the fandom plateaus. Columbine never did. Sealed evidence, destroyed materials, contradictory narratives, and constant cultural reactivation keep it open.
So it’s not that Eric and Dylan inspire a different kind of fascination. It’s that Columbine remains an unfinished story.
Would you say that the belief Eric and Dylan held of being godlike was rooted in narcissism
I actually think it is rooted in deep insecurity. The godlike language more like compensation. It mainly shows up in the context of NBK. Narcissism implies a relatively consistent sense of superiority across situations, and that just isn’t reflected in how either of them lived day to day.
During the shooting, did Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold wear any form of hearing protection? Gun shots are already as loud as it is, and in an enclosed echoey space like the highschool, I’d assume they’d sound even louder.
They weren’t wearing any hearing protection.
It’s very likely they were severely hearing impaired by the end. Eric’s notes (in his planner) reference hand signals he and Dylan planned to use to communicate during it. Gunshots in enclosed spaces are extremely loud, far more than people usually anticipate.
They had practiced shooting outdoors, so they probably didn’t fully grasp how overwhelming the noise would be indoors.
Would you say columbine counts a domestic terroism because it seemed to have largely been ideologically drive ( the ideology is that Eric and Dylan were gods and above everyone else )
I don’t personally consider Columbine domestic terrorism. While there are ideological elements in the writings, I don’t think the attack was ideologically driven in a strict sense. The beliefs people point to are too inconsistent and often contradictory.
Hey there! So I’m not actually sure if you ever watched “I’m Not Ashamed” or ever heard of it! It’s the movie based on Rachel Joy Scott’s life. And in the movie there is a nasty interaction with Rachel, Dylan and Eric At the staircase of columbine. In which Dylan and Eric were angry with Rachel for “ruining their presentation”. Do we know if this was interaction actually happened?
Thank you for your time!
hat scene is fictional. There’s no evidence of a confrontation between Rachel and Eric or Dylan like the one shown in I’m Not Ashamed. There’s no indication Eric knew Rachel at all. Dylan and Rachel have interacted once when she thanked him for helping (or attempting to help) with her performance, according to Devon, but beyond that there’s no indication they knew each other in any meaningful way. At most, they would’ve been acquaintances.
Someone who knew one of Rachel’s friends also stated that Rachel didn’t even know who Eric and Dylan were. During the attack, Rachel was shot from a distance. There were no words exchanged, and it’s doubtful the shooters even knew or saw who they had shot.
The movie is fictional, not a documentary. It’s inspired by Rachel Scott’s life and writings, but it invents scenes and interactions for storytelling purposes.
did e&d ever go to any concerts? if so what ones?
We know for certain that Eric and Dylan attended KMFDM and Rammstein on December 8, 1997, during the Sehnsucht tour/symbols. Funny enough Chris Morris can also be seen in the TCM picture wearing a symbols shirts, making it plausible that he went with them.
Eric and Dylan also attended the Rammstein show on May 1, 1998, which was still part of the same tour. Dylan and Eric explicitly noted this concert in their planners. He also referred to “ concerts” in the plural when writing about Eric, which suggests more than just a single shared show. At that concert Hanzel und Gretyl supported them, so they most likely watched them as well.
Separately, Dylan attended The Chemical Brothers concert on April 29, 1997, and he was planning to see them again in July 1999.
Susan DeWitt noted that Eric had multiple concert stubs in his bedroom, which strongly suggests he attended more shows than the few we can currently document. Based on timing, location, and his interest in Rammstein, it’s plausible that Eric attended the Denver Rammstein performance on October 6, 1998, as part of the Family Values Tour, where they played alongside Korn, Ice Cube, Orgy, and Limp Bizkit. I also believe it’s plausible to assume Dylan saw DJ spooky given his merch that he owned.
With their documented interest in music and the concert stubs, it’s likely there were additional concerts either together or separately, though at this point, that remains speculative and would more by me digging to confirm.
Do you think Dylan and Eric ever were on rotten.com?
Possibly, but we can’t say for sure.
They were both online a lot and curious. Rotten.com was widely known in the late 90s, especially among teens who spent time on the internet, so it wouldn’t be surprising if they’d come across it at some point. That said, there’s no direct evidence, no mentions in journals, no statements, nothing concrete tying either of them to that site specifically.
It’s also worth saying that exposure to shock sites wasn’t unusual for teenagers at the time and doesn’t tell us much on its own. As with a lot of Columbine related questions that has no clear evidence, the honest answer is simply, that we don’t know.
Do you think we’ll ever have the entire truth? That every little detail about Columbine could be known?
No. I don’t think we’ll ever have the entire truth in the sense of knowing every thought, motive, or private moment. That would require being inside people’s heads, and that’s not possible. Even those closest to Eric and Dylan only ever knew parts of them, and everyone involved afterward brought their own memories, emotions, and biases into how things were remembered and explained. Even law enforcement.
What we can do is get closer by being careful and critical. That means checking sources against each other, acknowledging contradictions instead of forcing coherence, being clear about where evidence ends and interpretation begins and being honest about what we don’t know. Some things were never written down, some material was lost or withheld, and some details just can’t be confirmed.
So no, we’ll never know every little detail. But we can still build a clearer picture, get closer to somewhat of a truth, by sticking to evidence, avoiding myths, and not filling gaps with certainty where there isn’t any. As well as accepting researching is a continuous process as new things get released or we come across other things that can change our perspective.
Why tf is Dave Cullen so set on trying to deny that Eric and Dylan were bullied
Dave Cullen is so invested in denying or minimizing that Eric and Dylan were bullied because it undermines the entire framework his work is built on. His central narrative depends on portraying Eric as a confident, socially dominant psychopath and Dylan as a depressed but essentially passive follower, with the violence framed as the result of internal pathology rather than social environment. Meaningful, sustained bullying complicates that picture. It collapses the image of Eric as dominant, blurs the clean mastermind, sidekick dynamic, and forces engagement with school culture, peer cruelty, and institutional failure rather than just individual pathology.
Cullen often frames his position as dismantling the “they were bullied outcasts” myth(which by the way.. isn’t a myth. Yes they bullied others too but they were bullied as well), but in doing so he overcorrects. Instead of arguing, reasonably, that bullying was not the sole cause, he frequently minimizes documented incidents by recasting them as normal teenage conflict, mutual teasing, or post incident exaggeration. That isn’t neutral analysis. It’s narrative protection. Methodologically, he privileges certain police interpretations and selected witness statements while sidelining others, including peer testimony, Brown family accounts, school records, and even Eric and Dylan’s own writings about humiliation and resentment. This isn’t nuanced research. It’s borderline fiction how he decided to write his book.
There’s also a broader incentive at play. Acknowledging bullying introduces uncomfortable systemic questions about school environments and adult failure. Framing the violence around a “psychopath” offers a cleaner, more marketable explanation. one that satisfies a public desire for a monster rather than a mirror. Acknowledging bullying does not excuse the murders. It’s important context. Cullen’s work often collapses that distinction, and that’s why his resistance to the bullying evidence is so persistent and why I would never recommend his book to anyone. Unfortunately his book was the first released, so it’s gotten the most attention. I hope mine can combat some of the misinformation and offer the whole picture.
what’s the story of Dylan and Sasha Jacobs? did she ‘play’ with him and Eric?
Play is a pretty loaded way to frame it. They were teenagers dating and figuring things out.
There’s no evidence Sasha Jacobs was playing either of them. She went on one or two dates with Dylan in October 1997, felt uncomfortable, and didn’t pursue it further. Around the same time, she met Eric and dated him more consistently until January 1998.
She ended the relationship after the van break in and after Eric told her his parents had found bombs in his room, both entirely reasonable reasons to walk away.
Nothing about this suggests manipulation. To me it’s just a brief mismatch with Dylan and a longer relationship with Eric that ended when some red flags appeared.
“JACOBS stated she met KLEBOLD through a friend at Columbine High School whom she identified as Chad Laughlin, who has known HARRIS since third grade. JACOBS stated she dated KLEBOLD one or two times in October 1997. She stated there was something strange about KLEBOLD and she felt uncomfortable with him. It was during that time she met HARRIS and they began dating. They dated approximately 16-20 times during the period October 1997 through January 1998. JACOBS stated on their dates they would normally go to the movies and she picked the movies they would attend. She did not like violent movies and on their dates they did not attend any. She advised they would normally go out one night per week and the other night HARRIS would go out with KLEBOLD and see movies such as Pulp Fiction, Natural Born Killer, Reservoir Dogs, etc. JACOBS opined that KLEBOLD seemed to have more friends than HARRIS. (…)
JACOBS stated she went to Harris’s residence approximately four times while they were dating and had dinner with the family on one occasion. (…)
JACOBS stated that after HARRIS and KLEBOLD were caught breaking into a cable van (couldn’t recall exact dare). HARRIS told JACOBS that his parents searched his bedroom and found all the bombs he had already made. JACOBS could not be sure, but she thought HARRIS stated the bombs were taken to a field and detonated. She also stated that HARRIS advised when he was residing in New York, he had set fire to a bridge.
(…) She advised in January 1998, she stopped dating HARRIS and in July 1998 she began receiving threatening phone calls with the caller claiming, I’m going to kill you or a bomb is coming. She believed HARRIS was responsible for these calls. HARRIS did send her e-mail and in the e-mail stated JACOBS was a loose end and he was trying to fix all his loose ends. JACOBS changed her screen name and HARRIS’s e-mail to her stopped. JACOB’s parents were made aware of the threats at the time they occurred.” – excerpt from her police statement
A couple rumors that im curious about your thoughts on
– did eric really cry in the basement tapes? I’ve heard some people say it was because he was afraid to leave everyone behind or that it was wordless.
– 3rd shooter/bomber theory
– were e&d actually thrown cups of shit at?
1. Yes Eric began to cry.
Excerpt from the basement tapes transcripts: “Eric says he can’t decide “if we should do it before or after prom”. At the end of this part of the tape, Harris says he wishes he could have re-visited Michigan and “old friends”. He falls silent then and appears to start crying, wiping a tear from the left side of his face. He reaches over and shuts the camera off.”
Also we have an interview from the District Attorney George Brauchler who described what he saw. Again, this wasn’t part of the released transcripts but a lot of the stuff released was heavily redacted anyway.
“”…There’s a moment when he’s in his room… And he sits there and he starts going through the names of the different girls, my guess is that he’d either had affection for or asked out and rejected by, something. And he just starts reading these names off, kind of by memory, and he starts tearing up and crying on this video…”
2. I don’t believe in that, it’s been debunked too. However if we are talking about whether others might have known, I’m a bit more on the fence.
3. Yes, according to one of Dylan’s friends. “Nathan Vanderau reported that Eric and Dylan were constantly picked on. Vanderau noted that a “cup of fecal matter” was thrown at them.”
Not sure if someone had asked this already but some sources say there was 13 deaths, and some say 12. Is there any reason maybe why? It’s probably just a typo but since the conflating sources are all from the web I’d rather ask someone educated. And iirc it’s actually 12, right? Thank you for documenting and analysing things, have a good day.. !!!
There are now 14 victims.
In 1999, 12 students and 1 teacher were killed, which is where the long-cited number of 13 comes from.
In 2025, one of the survivors who had been injured later passed away. Anne Marie Hochhalter unfortunately died in February, and in March her death was officially ruled a homicide due to complications from her gunshot wound.
That ruling formally increased the death toll from 13 to 14.
How do you think Dylan reacted at Eric’s outburst of anger?
We have a pretty good idea of it here:
Paavilainen statement says:
“In january 1999, Paavilainen and her friend, Amanda Semm, were involved in a minor car accident with Klebold and Harris. Semm clipped Klebold’s BMW on the left rear fender while in the school parking lot. Klebold got out and said not to worry because the car had been hit before. There was no damage to her friend’s car. Harris then got out of the passenger side of Klebold’s car and was angry. Klebold ordered Harris to get back in the car, which he did. Klebold then got back in the car and drove off.”
Amanda elaborated on the incident in 2009:
“I was in tears and kept apologizing over and over and over I told him I had insurance and I could file a report, it was my fault and that is when I was told it wasn’t a big deal the car had been hit so many times on the other side I evened it out. I started to calm down.
Then the passenger door opened and Eric started yelling at me, something along the lines of I was a stupid bitch, why wasn’t I paying attention to where I was going (I honestly do not remember all of it) I thought for sure he was gonna send his girlfriend to kick my ass or something. (I am a 5’7 109 pound girl most people think they can take me on, I couldn’t believe he was so mad and it wasn’t even his car) Dylan told him to get back in the car and they took off. I didn’t see them again till the news.
The thing is I was paying attention, I had just learned to drive my car (manual) so hopping into a parking space wasn’t a new site for people to see from me. They were flying thru the parking lot. I checked my right then my left and started to pull foward and BAM there was a ass end of a car….(he came from the right)
I was thankful that he did not want to file a report. I didn’t want my mother to take away my car. I am pretty sure that is one of the first times I was allowed to drive it to school after getting my license 3 months prior. I thought Eric was a jerk….but anyone who gets that mad for something that can be handled in a civilized manner puts off that image.”
What stands out to me is that he corrected Eric without hesitation. When Eric began yelling, Dylan told him to get back in the car, and Eric did immediately which is also important. There’s no indication Dylan found the outburst frightening if anything, he seemed used to it and just shut it down. Eric didn’t seem to mind listening to Dylan either.
We also know he barely reacted when Eric shouted at him after the soccer match, stating that’s just Eric. They were younger then.
It’s the main accounts we know about so that’s what we have to form our opinions on.
Is it true that the spat between Eric and brooks had Dylan upset and worried?
Well… according to Brooks brown it is, however Sue tells a different story.
“I looked up to see a figure coming up the driveway. It was Judy Brown, the mother of one of Dylan’s childhood friends, Brooks. Alerted by the Littleton rumor mill that Dylan was involved in the events at the school, she had come to our house. I was startled to see her. Our boys had been good friends in first and second grades and then reunited in high school, but they hadn’t been close, and I’d only seen Judy a few times in the years since elementary school. We’d chatted warmly a few weeks before, at a school event, but we’d never done anything together except when our boys were involved, and I wasn’t sure I could manage any social niceties. I was too disoriented to question why she was there, but it did seem odd for her to have materialized during this most private of times.”
We don’t know the full picture but even Brooks said they drifted apart and found each again in High School. I don’t think they were as close towards the end. I can see it making Dylan slightly uncomfortable standing in the middle of the conflict, not sure I really think he was overly worried or upset.
Do you think their parents are overly-blamed as if Eric and Dylan don’t have freewill? Sure they were probably not involved enough in their lives but still. It’s not like there’s a physical force preventing them from doing such a thing
Parents influence their kids, but they don’t control their choices. Eric and Dylan made their own decisions and are responsible for them. Acknowledging that doesn’t mean their parents did everything right, it just means the level of blame placed on them is disproportionate.
Sure there were missed signs in the sense of general distress and declining well being, not missed signs of a school shooting. That narrative only exists because Columbine happened. Expecting parents to identify something that had no established framework at the time is hindsight bias. Too easy to point the finger.
We need to hold the school and law enforcement more accountable since I believe they saw more.
I’m unsure if you’ve been asked this before, but I’m curious. Do you think younger Eric & Dylan would be disappointed in themselves, if that makes sense.
Fully speculative of course.
I think so, yeah.
I don’t think their younger selves would see what happened as some kind of fulfillment. Eric wanted respect, belonging, and to feel competent. He loved soccer, wanted to follow in his dad’s footsteps, and for a long time was just a regular kid, he didn’t even touch Doom until 1994. He seemed happy enough in New York, he didn’t have the same resentment then. I think his younger self would see the end result as a failure to become what he actually wanted to be.
Dylan wanted connection and meaning. He was into baseball and drumming. He was visibly intelligent and curious. His younger self would likely be shocked by how much bitterness and harm he ended up carrying out.
Kids carry such a hope with them, and neither of them started out broken or destined for violence.
Do you think Dylan and Eric actually cared for each other as friends or just shared a common enemy and thus stuck together
I do think they cared about each other as friends, but I don’t think they were emotionally close or shared feelings in a deep way. I doubt that they confided vulnerability in each other. What they clearly bonded over was shared anger, resentment, and an “us vs them” mindset.
Their friendship seems conditional towards the end. I also think that if either of them had found other people who genuinely understood them, that bond wouldn’t have held the same weight.
So yes, there was real friendship there, fun times too, but in my opinion it wasn’t a deep emotional one
Echoes in the Columbine Archive 
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